RE: Pro or Anti War Pigs?
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
Naturally, my reaction was similar to Jamie's last night. It's a good point you make here. Of course, I was extremely saddened to hear of Ozzy's passing, and for me, this falls in the category of loving the artist but not agreeing with his personal action. There were many choices and political views the Osbournes (read, Sharon) took that I personally didn't share. Same with Nick Cave, particularly regarding Israel. Still, I can't not see them as fantastic artists, as far as music is concerned, you know?
On the other hand, to balance, I'm going tonight to a screening of Roger Waters' This is Not a Drill concert. I can think of few people as vocal or as sound-minded, particularly when it comes to these atrocities. Now, there's an artist whose work and personal choices/activism, I can easily reconcile :) I'm guessing you might enjoy it.
I don't think there will be a day of judgement for the war pigs
It does not seem likely, unfortunately.
You know, I am a huge Nick fan and love his Red Hand Files. I've seen him live many times over the years and it's like attending a church. His performance is always extraordinary. I haven't investigated his response to Israel and to be fair, it's hard to look into the political leanings of every artist you love, but boy there's shock when the gloss is scratched. Off to investigate now. Ugh. I'll get back to you. From memory he's been pretty silent on it and loves his religious shit but not necessarily pro war? Still it seems a bit complicit to not speak out. Perhaps he's reconciling shit himself. Disappointed anyway..but then he's never been one for political posturing.
Roger Waters, yes, I'm keen to see that. Being English and growing up when he did, Pink Floyd is also one of Jamie's loves (as well as The Who and Hawkwind). Dark Side of the Moon is the first album Dad played on his new stereo in the 70s and I still remember waking up to the album even as a kid.
It's hard for me to separate artists from who they are. Think P.Diddy. Not that I liked his music, but jeez if I did not sure I could listen to it..Yet saying that, there's some amazing hip hop/reggae artists I've loved that have dubious attitudes toward woman and even criminal charges and I still enjoy their music - oof.
Of course Ozzy was still a legend. Most fans will blame it all on Sharon of course. But this genocide... Jesus. As I said, fkn hard to get past.
I only like the Nick Cave song with Kylie. At least she doesn't have a state sanctioned label on her. She's mindless slaughter. War is that, but with extra steps. Extra justification. Extra arms deals.
Its abhorrent, no matter who is doing it to who, or why.
Like, just have a chat, have a few drinks, break some bread, and find the common ground and beauty of existing.
Again, the one thing you missed here, that you don't often miss - the interplay of religion in all of this. Sorry for crashing the chain of comments, but I had to.
Oh yep, but I didn't want to go into the whole religion thing. We all know why Zionists believe what they do. Breaking bread is impossible when all this history has unfolded in such horrific ways. The two state solution which was perfectly reasonable and at least a way to live is impossible now, by Israel's design I believe.
It wasn't really a post about religion, more about how it's hard to reconcile people's beliefs and actions with their art. But I probably failed there.
You didn't fail :) I just tried to push my own interpretation into the writing, without going to the effort of writing a similar thing myself. I am a flawed man, for that reason, and for believing that ... were it not for the foolishness of thousands of years of conflict, that people could just get along. I see healing as simple, because, well, I know that we don't have another thousand years in us, and I'm sick of hearing about suffering.
I agree with you about Zionists. The evidence is there in the bodies that lie still in the desert. In the absolutely reprehensible events that have taken place. I was disgusted at the news that a squad of soldiers infiltrated a hospital, dressed as doctors, to take out an "official" of the enemy. It angers me without end that people can do that and not be internationally fucking condemned for their actions, and that's just one act. There's thousands like it.
Going back to music, and Ozzy, and I think about, and tell myself that I can seperate the art from the act, but like you wrote, I struggle to do so too. Sometimes, I just want to appreciate the Art, without knowing anything about the act.
And that's just one incident. As you say, there's many more like it.
3,000 to 4,000 child amputations ... 10 on average per day, often without anesthesia. And Israel say that's fake news.
In May alone, more than 5,100 children aged 6 months to 5 years were admitted for acute malnutrition - and Israel say they're feeding them.
I can't even.
The heart is a muscle. You use yours well.
Ah it's more than that! It's connected to the lungs, which is connected to the breath, and the brain... It's intimatelt connected to our emotional world! Never JUST.
I edited my prior reply to remove the word just. You're 100% correct.
I wasn't aware he had an opinion either way on Israel, but I noticed RW called him out some months ago and looked into it. From what I understand, he played in Israel also despite calls to boycott. I don't think he was particularly aggressive, though, and to me, at least, his talent and beautiful mind balances this out.
I agree. Hard to get past. And we shouldn't.
From what I read he says it's a complex situation and people have the right to freely choose to perform as an artist and that engaging with people on a personal rather than political level is a better way to create dialogue and make connections. He doesn't believe in punishing the ordinary people of Israel.
He's an intelligent man who thinks deeply and I can really see his point.
But at this stage of the game I don't really think that's good enough.
At the very least, why should Israelis enjoy a fucking concert whilst 'ordinary' children starve? Almost certainly there would be 'ordinary' soldiers there and the world has seen what they've been doing.
I think he's tremendously smart, too. He does have a point, but ultimately, it boils down to this,
Because to deny any and every modern comfort would be anti-semitism. Duh.
Duh!
You're not letting us have a concert?? It's like the Holocaust all over again!
Too far?