Reimagining Creative Support: Hive as a Web3.0 Patreon Alternative
Hey Hivers and LEO Lovers!
Over the past decade, we’ve been incredibly fortunate to build a beautiful and supportive community across the globe. This journey started from our humble beginnings performing on the streets of New York City and grew steadily through years of hard work, connection, and shared passion.
Our community saw a massive boost in 2017 when our first viral video exploded on Facebook. From there, we kept the momentum going, live-streaming from unique locations across Europe and North America, inviting people to join us on our musical adventures. During this time, we launched our Patreon "Troublemaker" Community, a space for our most dedicated supporters to connect with us and each other.
Then came the pandemic, a time that turned everything upside down. With live performances off the table, our Troublemaker community became a lifeline, helping us navigate the challenges of the pandemic and continue creating music. Their support meant everything to us, and it’s because of them that we’re still here, doing what we love.
Fast forward to today, and this community remains at the heart of everything we do. Their unwavering belief in our music and vision keeps us inspired, motivated, and ready to take on the next chapter of our journey.
Looking Ahead: Hive as the Next Frontier
As we embark on a new frontier and focus on our next massive project, we’ve been exploring ways to integrate Hive into our ecosystem and grow dramatically on this platform. It recently dawned on us that Hive (and communities like InLeo) could function as a Web3.0 alternative to Patreon—and perhaps even something better.
Here’s the idea:
With the Patreon model, fans pay a subscription fee, and in return, we provide exclusive content and access to an “inner circle.” The transaction is simple: Fan gives us money, we give access.
But with Hive, the relationship could be much more mutually beneficial. Our fans would only need to create a Hive account and stake some HP/LP. When we post, they can upvote our content, which monetizes it for us, helping us to fund our projects and sustain our work. But here’s the kicker: they would also share in the rewards as curators of our content! This way, they’re not just supporters—they’re investors in our creativity, sharing in the success of our community.
The Challenges to Overcome
Of course, this isn’t without its challenges. Here are some key hurdles we need to tackle:
Migrating Our Existing Community to Hive
In the past, there’s been resistance to moving our Web2.0 community to Hive. However, tools like InLeo, PeakD, Hive Keychain, and others have made onboarding much easier, creating a seamless transition from Web2.0 to Web3.0. We believe this will make the process much smoother for our fans.Building Enough HP/LP to Support Curation Rewards
For Hive to rival the earnings we receive through Patreon, our posts would need significant HP/LP backing. While we could encourage fans to buy and stake Hive themselves (and educate them on the benefits), we know some may be hesitant to invest.
A Potential Solution: The Troublemaker Fund
One exciting option could be to create a "Troublemakers Fund." Through this fund, we could delegate Hive Power (HP) directly to our fans as an incentive to join Hive. This gesture would demonstrate our commitment to the platform and show our fans that we’re invested in this ecosystem’s future.
It aligns perfectly with who we are and what we stand for—a decentralized, creative, and supportive community. By delegating HP, we could help our fans take their first steps into Web3.0 while expanding both the Hive and Troublemaker communities. It’s a win-win that bridges the gap between digital and physical creation, especially as we shift our focus from constant travel to creating innovative new projects.
What Do You Think?
We’re incredibly excited about the possibilities, but we’d love to hear from you!
- What do you think of the idea of using Hive as a Web3.0 version of Patreon?
- What other strategies could we employ to onboard our large Web2.0 community to Hive?
- Have you seen similar success stories within Hive or other blockchain ecosystems that we can learn from?
Let us know in the comments below or DM us if you’re interested in collaborating or brainstorming further. Together, we can make this vision a reality and strengthen our collective journey.
With Love, Creativity, and Melodies,
The Trouble Notes 🎻✨
Posted Using INLEO
I've been thinking about this model for some time, but hadn't really seen anyone take it up. Patreon offer something interesting, but Hive has lots of benefits for both sides. The fact that fans can earn too is revolutionary. They do need to build some stake, but it is up to them how they do that. Of course they can be posting their own content and earning from that. I would hope they would find other things to enjoy on Hive.
Getting people on board is the tricky bit really. As I said previously I can create a load of free accounts. That requires me sending them the keys that they can load into Keychain. I will promise to delete those from my PC, but people really ought to change the keys anyway. You ought to make up a tutorial on the necessary steps. I will offer something extra in that I will do a delegation to each person you bring here. That will be for a limited time, but we will see how it goes.
You seem serious about this, so I want to help. If you can make a success of it then other musicians will be interested and then it could take off.
You can DM me within peakd or on the same name on Discord to discuss details.
This could really be a model. We need to first plan out the exact steps it would take to get everyone onboard and to be really really clear about what to do so they feel safe, welcome and will engage. I really appreciate the offer to help, I think it will be invaluable having other longtime community members here supporting. If we can create this as a true model going forward, this could be a way of bringing a lot of different creators on the platform and would be very much inline with the Decentralized mission of Hive.
Plus, our ability as story-tellers and our network could really help to attract people to the vibrant community that is here. I would love to get more people involved in crafting the narrative of exactly what HIVE is.. perhaps there is even a collaborative community video that we could produce that others could use to easily onboard people and set up a similar kind of symbiotic economy.
I know new users need some hand-holding and it can be hard work, so building up a network can help. I think if you create a Hive community for fans, like a Facebook groups, then it can give you some control to moderate it. Just make sure to back up all relevant keys! I managed to lose keys for a community I created :(
Hive is like the wild west, but then it offer opportunities.
Good luck with this.
Before we launch, we will do a heck of a lot of research and planning to make this successful. It could backfire spectacularly if we aren't super air tight with what we do...
If you can find a few volunteers to test-drive it then that will help. I'll help where I can. It could be fun anyway.
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Hello
I'm having issues trying to create a hive account for a friend.
Can you please help me with it as?
Can you contact me on Discord or peakd chat?
Yes, on it.
Thank you.
I have just sent you a discord message.
It's a great idea, and I'm glad you're giving it some potential "air time" here!
I'm glad you're exploring this from the perspective of someone who has been part of the community for a long time.
As I recall, there was an initiative some years ago to have some kind of crowdfunding/artist support system here but it never went very far because the execution of the idea was too complicated and awkward.
Hive is amazing, but it's biggest challenge is — and always has been — a level of complexity and a learning curve that makes it difficult to persuade Web 2.0 users to give us a shot.
Way back when, I advocated "light" Hive accounts that would allow people to pretty much get a "log in with Google" account — with the account creator holding on to the keys and the Light account only having posting keys — that they could test drive and get to know Hive with. When/if they like it, they could "Upgrade" to a full account and get full access to their keys... and if NOT, and the account goes dormant... any HivePower in the account is powered down and burned, and keys shredded.
As a Patreon replacement?
That's a tough nut to crack. One of the problems being that your current setup has a sort of "first mover advantage," meaning that you will lose a good number of people... unless you're prepared to run BOTH in tandem for 2-3 years, maybe more. Maybe if you put enough Hive "teasers" in your Patreon content, people will gradually drift over.
My thought (and I have a Patreon account, for my art) is that it would be something that requires a lot of attention to carefully mapping strategies and then having a lot of patience because it might be three years down the road before Hive equals your current Patreon.
But definitely worth a try!
We think you're right about this. It's one of the things that has prevented us from changing or trying to migrate to different systems in the past. We have approximately 200 patrons and we are certain that if we migrate everything full stop, we will lose a lot of people. It's more likely that we could create some different kind of use case for our new project and run them in tandem. What is special about Patreon is the exclusivity of being a part of the inner circle. That isn't really the point of HIVE in many ways.
You're also absolutely right that the learning curve on HIVE is very steep. I would say that today it is the most user friendly it has ever been, but it's still far more complicated than any Web2.0 platform. People are extremely lazy and their attention spans are short these days. We will have to make very strong arguments and incentives for people to take actions. The brain is churning...
Maybe part of the approach here could be to offer Hive as a sort of benefit to your existing patrons... instead of phrasing it as "a move" phrase it as a new "benefit" that offers patrons an opportunity to earn crypto as part of supporting you on Hive.
I see you have five different tiers on Patreon, so depending on which tier, someone coming over to Hive might get a Hive account loaded with anywhere (just shooting numbers randomly, here) from 50 to 1000 HP delegation for as long as they stay active.
You'd likely need a "How to Follow and Help us on Hive!" guidebook post either pinned or regularly recycled on your Patreon post feed... and it has to carve everything out in cardboard, almost like a Wiki of sorts.
I say that, not really having researched Patreon's policy on talking about off-Patreon venues...
I'm just brainstorming with you here, as someone who has noodled the same questions, both for my art, as well as for my wife's nonprofit.
This is an excellent idea. I think that this could be something that we could even use on our other social media channels and try to expand out even further. There are likely many Fans of ours who would like to support on Patreon, but the thought of monthly payment and investment has caused resistance.
What we're thinking is we will separate the content slightly so that the Patrons continue to get exclusive, "regular" behind the scenes content during the creation process of our new Story Album and Show. The remainder of the information related to the Story Album would be built here on Hive.
We could offer perks to people on Patreon - I LOVE the HP Delegation based on Tiers (we could also use a % of the funds we are receiving from Patreon to DCA into HP each month which would then be delegated back to new members). One could argue that becoming a member of the Patreon community could be seen as an investment if they were to then become active Community members on HIVE and earn rewards...
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Hey there, I'm really interested in the project!
I think it's a great idea and you give me a new way of thinking about onboarding fans into Hive, because I've never thought about the return that they could have by supporting me here.
Patreon CEO made a Ted talk on the "death of the follower". Check it out on YouTube. Maybe Hive is not suitable to replace the Patreon subscription model yet, but what Hive offers - just like Patreon does - is getting rid of the algorithm that buries our content in the feed and prevents our fans to see our content.
Hive advantage is earning for fans by supporting the artist with votes. The hard part is convincing fans to get on Hive and learn how to use it. And don't forget the big resistance about crypto...
Unfortunately I don't have fans yet that support me on Patreon, nor someone who followed me from web2, so I don't have a feedback to bring some suggestions to the project. But I'll be glad to help in any way, if this will help me to be more effective on onboarding people 😁✌🏻
Great feedback. Yes - we've listened to that same Ted Talk. It was interesting indeed. Our Manager has given talks as well at different industry festivals about "Followers are not Fans" - so it's something we are invested in. I think we have found an extremely interesting model that if we organize it effectively, it could be a gateway into a future use of the Hive Blockchain for the community.
It could be interesting to create a frontend specifically for artists and for their fans. This way we could better emulate the Patreon model and give people a hub to see only artists content, not mixed up with everything else on Hive.
A platform with subscriptions and links to NFT showroom to sell music without leaving the blockchain and so on.
But I'm not a programmer and don't know someone that could do this in their free time 😅
now we are getting somewhere! We would need to have like a whitelist of accounts that would be allowed to unlock certain posts on the platform. There are also the communities that could somehow have a Subscription based access tier
Their attempts to intimidate and silence their critics are equally concerning. The use of downvotes as a means of censorship is a clear indication of their desperation to maintain their grip on the narrative. But it's not working
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter3-sp2q9h
WE EXPOSED A SUPER FARM ON HIVE
Super farm https://peakd.com/@memesandstuff/wallet spam scam accounts
WE EXPOSED A SUPER FARM ON HIVE
Super farm https://peakd.com/@memesandstuff/wallet spam scam accounts
we are excited to announce our ambitious endeavor to create the largest curation trail on Hive and, by extension, the world LOL
https://hive.blog/hive-140217/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter1-sp87n1
themarkymark (80)in LeoFinance 18 hours ago You are the abuse on Hive hive.blog/hive-167922/@themarkymark/re-bpcvoter3-smp740 LOL TRANSACTIONS DON'T LIE PEOPLE DO PEOPLE LIKE YOU DO Curation reward for BUILDAWHALE COMMENT FARM buildawhale51.108 HP
https://hive.blog/@kevm/comments
https://hive.blog/@kcgm/comments
The Hive community has been plagued by a rise in spam accounts sharing stolen content. Many of these accounts appear to be linked to a single super farm that we've exposed @memesandstuff superfarm and we believe a prominent whale may be behind it
A Call to Action Against Downvote Abuse on Hive
Bad downvotes on Hive are a growing concern that must be addressed. These downvotes not only discourage users from sharing their real thoughts and ideas but also damage the community as a whole, we see many walk away
https://peakd.com/@buildawhale/activities
https://peakd.com/@themarkymark/activities
https://peakd.com/@usainvote/activities
https://peakd.com/@adm/activities
The Buildawhale farm scam has been a topic of concern for us, and we've exposed it. However, despite our attempts to bring attention to this issue, it seems that no concrete actions have been taken to address it. This lack of response is puzzling
Let's discuss a more serious issue that affects all on Hive. The prevalence of bad downvotes on Hive is a major concern, and we urge you to speak up if you've been affected by it. Don't be afraid to share your experiences speak up
Tagging @acidyo here - maybe there is a tip to share!
I think this is a great idea, might need a few tweaks but it is a good starting point.
I have had a few similar thoughts, for one of my projects but I have not managed to decide what would be the best way to onboard the community members.
An important aspect is the onboarding itself, they would need mentorship and help with the first steps..
Looking forward for the updates :)
It's the onboarding that has always been difficult in the past. It's certainly easier today, but still likely to be one of the major roadblocks to any meaningful progress. Still, could be worth a try!
That's a great idea! He has more experience working with — and integrating — external platforms than virtually anyone else in the Hivesphere.
If the price of HIVE(/LEO) grows and continues to grow, I see no problem with that. If however - the scenario that is more likely - we will continue to have huge price fluctuations between bear and bull market, that doesn't seem to work, especially at scale. Remember the reward pool is fixed and shared by everyone on Hive who is a creator or curator. That automatically makes this model a battle for a scarce pool, which in Patreon's case, it isn't. Subscriptions on Inleo are the equivalent to that, as far as I know, earning from subscriptions is not capped, which earning from the reward pool(s) is/would be. If the price of the reward token rises, then even a limited reward pool can be plenty for a reasonable number of creators and their fans, but still it wouldn't scale very well, and it would depend on the price of the reward token.
This is a very valid point. In order for it to fully replace Patreon, you likely need to demand subscriptions in HBD. Right now what we're liking is the idea of keeping Patreon as a kind of Subscription model and then offering accounts to the community with Delegations based on their tier each month. We would then earmark a % of the monthly Patreon Creators $$ that we receive and DCA into HIVE and Power up that amount each month, which would then add to our Staked Pool that we can delegate to our community members.
The InLeo subs give another option for rewarding dedicated fans. I think we have to try various models to see what works. Of course people can just donate crypto if that's what they want to do. They happily give fiat on Patreon.
I love it.
I love the mindset. That's how I see Web3 too, sometimes I say "Patreon on steroids". Some comments here point out that onboarding is the biggest hurdle. Yeah, sure. I've been preaching NFTs in the same similar way - direct relationship between brand and fanbase. Mainstream still thinks "NFT" is cursed scam gambles. So it's a lot of yelling at the wall to Web2 people, lol
But I'm hopeful that things will be changing very fast. Especially if better regulation comes soon that at least enforces laws regarding gambling and scams to protect consumers. Then I think Web3 will really blow up based on content and utility. Until then, it's up to people like us to lead by example!!!!
Hive is perfect for Web3 social media, and I'm fully on board to spread the cause and get more creators also joining in similar ways. As you pointed out, don't migrate completely from Patreon. Do both. The Patreon will be the biggest funnel for dedicated fans.
We should have a live stream interview about this sometime and promote your vision!
How are you distributing your music content on Web3, and plan to? 😁
I like your mission and plan to use Hive as community inner circle tool, but how would they actually be watching or listening to your music, beyond blog interaction? The videos are linked or embedded in posts or website?
NFT is the way to go here, IMO. You could do both the Hive model, and also WAX collection for music/video content. Instead of views and listens, the songs and performances and BTS can be owned in user wallets. Gamified through packs, blends for upgrades, holder rewards, etc. And earned for free through engagement, or purchased. WAX Blockchain is just as efficient as Hive for this, we do nearly free instant transactions (2k NFTs delivered in Twitch in 5 hours yesterday!). And no coding required, it's all easy upload dashboards like having a YouTube channel.
Exclusivity can also apply, you could have exclusive content for people that hold any specific NFT. And you can track holders at any time and their activity; it is truly an inner circle marketing gold mine. Airdrops can include future NFT, like access to future drops etc, it doesn't have to be money airdrops. But I do share 10% revenue with my collection's "Mythic" holders, and I have a farm where users stake to earn tiny drips, so really you can do anything! Could even launch your own loyalty token eventually with use case.
Back to onboarding.... Web2 people don't understand and are afraid of this kind of talk. It's an uphill battle, but we're trying to show the benefits to the content creator demographic (some WAX creators and streamers and I). So we're really working on the same mission! I need to learn more and participate more in Hive myself. Will try in 2025.
Cheers a bright future!