TTT: Odd times

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I have been doing a drumming course on 'odd time'. This can be anything beyond the standard 3/4 and 4/4 time that most music uses. A lot of folk music uses triplet rhythms in 6/8 or 12/8. On the course we have covered 5/4, 7/8 and 9/8 which all feel odd to start with, but you can get used to them. Creating music that sounds good and natural in odd times is not so easy, but you may well have listened to some. A well known example is Money by Pink Floyd that is partly in 7/4 (solo in 4/4). Here are some others.

Genesis - Turn It On Again

This song was a big hit, but if might confuse you if you try to dance to it. The verse is in 13 as they throw in an extra beat. Other parts of the song are in different times. Genesis had a lot of history with odd time. Part of their Supper's Ready suite is actually called Apocalypse in 9/8. The course is being done by Nic Collins whose dad Phil could tell him a thing or two about this topic.

The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Blue Rondo à la Turk

I could have gone with the obvious Take 5, but this one is fun too. The main riff can be counted 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-3 three times and then has a bar of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3. As with the last song it goes to other places, but comes back to the riff at the end. The musicians need to be concentrating to keep it all flowing. You really need to feel rather than be counting all the time. My jazz group may try Take 5 some time and that will be a challenge for me.

Porcupine Tree - Sentimental

Some of you know that I am a big fan of Steven Wilson who had this band before putting out music under his own name. He is a master of odd time. I saw them play this live when the album came out. At that point I did not really know the band, but a friend of a friend knew Mr Wilson and got us tickets. On the intro you can hear it switching between 6/4 and 5/4, but it seems quite random.

I just found this video that attempts to explain what is going on. It is a form of polyrhythm where different times are played together. In this case it is used as an effect to throw you off and make the song more disturbing. We humans like nice regular rhythms that we can clap along to. In other tunes he does this by making the groups of bars less standard. A lot of music uses multiples of four bars (e.g. 12 bar blues), but he may use sets of three instead.

Counting out

Music theory is just a way to describe how music works and you do not have to understand it much as you do not have to understand how your car engine works, but it is a fascinating topic for some of us. What really matters is whether you enjoy the music.

Rock on!



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12 comments
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Peter Gabriel's start of his solo career, Solsbury Hill, is in 7/4, and you barely notice it because all the lines end on the down.

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Yes, I knew that one too. A lot of music that I like is 'odd'. Peter obviously got into this stuff pretty young and he's still making great music. I saw him live with an orchestra a few years back.

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I remember reading about a Genesis live show when Peter Gabriel came to the show and agreed with the others to play a song on drums. And the song was Turn it on again. Never rehearsed with him. It was just for fun. And he got lost after a minute 😂

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I'm not surprised. If the music is just 4/4 then any drummer could play along, but when you throw in extra beats it's a different matter.

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I love that you threw some jazz in there! Nice stuff! I remember the first time we were given an odd song like this to play in band and it really threw us at first!

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3/4 and 4/4 feel so natural, but you can get used to others. What did you play? I think jazz musicians like a challenge anyway.

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I actually don't remember what song it was now, I just remember it was a shock to a lot of us.

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Now I know that the rhythm of Blue Rondo à la Turk was inspired by the Turkish aksak time signatures.

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May the “Odd times” last forever, may the rhythm of the heart be our passion for music, may that strange percussion never cease.
Rock on!

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When I was in high school, my friend and I were given a flute/clarinet duet to play for our state contest that was 7/4 every other measure and 6/4 the others. Very weird and counting just didn't work. A real challenge and hard work learning it, but we did it and the judge in the contest gave us the highest rating.

Could I play it now? I doubt it, and I don't think I'd want to put in the work to be able to play it again anyway.

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I played something in 13 at a folk workshop. It can feel natural after a while, but it's not common in our musical culture. Sounds like you did well.

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