You will always be entertained...
Everybody showed up for the execution
But nobody would show their face
To shoot you in the back of the head and call it sacrifice
They don't deserve to even say your name
I was thrilled when I heard Marilyn Manson was preparing a new album (his first after the whole Evan Rachel Wood business) and a new tour. Not because I'm some diehard MM fan. I'm just appalled at the fact that we live in a society where people's lifetime work can be wrecked by flimsy hearsay and biased "evidence". That many of these men (because let's face it, a large majority are men) are not even asked for their side of the story before their representation drops them and their appearances are canceled.
Doesn't sound like equality to me. I'm all for hearing and believing victims, but surely, we should first make sure they actually are victims, no? Otherwise, it's not a matter of believing victims, but of cherry-picking whom we believe. Sounds dangerous to me.
I remember listening to an interview with Manson's main accuser and former girlfriend, Evan Rachel Wood, sometime last year. It was with renowned clinical psychologist and narcissism expert Dr. Ramani Durvasula, someone who I believe has done a lot of good in helping victims of narcissistic abuse. I used to listen to her a fair bit, and I remember being quite moved by Wood's interview. Indeed, from it, Manson came out quite a monster. Except, the more I listened to Dr. Ramani, the more I began noticing a pattern - victimhood was never questioned, and while there were loose disclaimers about carelessly labeling others as narcissistic, the main gist remained that you were the victim and they were the perpetrator.
There is, indubitably, abuse out there. There are people who take advantage of you, who hurt you. They really exist.
But I'd be cautious about such programs that are skewed before they begin in the "victim's" favor. After all, in this particular case, it would reflect poorly on Dr. Ramani and her audience if she came out in the middle of the interview and said "yeah, but maybe you were a bit to blame there, weren't you?". How can someone like that then continue feeding this victimhood narrative to thousands of followers? It's not enough to consume information. You must also question the people feeding you said information, surely.
I've always been confused by these #MeToo celebrity stories since in many of these cases, the "victims" were putting themselves in quite risque positions with full awareness of the "perpetrator's" reputation and sexual proclivities. In many cases, as indeed in Wood's, they kept going back to their alleged abusers time and again.
If there was abuse, and no one can really know if there was or wasn't (we have trouble enough knowing far simpler truths in the couples that surround us), but if there was abuse, it's a tragedy these people didn't get the help or were not strong enough to step away.
At the same time... there needs to be some accountability. These people need to be asked well, why were you there? So you were young and confused and vulnerable and fell into the wrong hands or the wrong situation. That's a sad thing, can be deeply traumatic. It's also a shame there was no one to help you or that you didn't know better. But. You made certain choices. Being young or in a weird place aren't really excuses. They're reasons (partly), but they're not excuses, nor do they give you a free-pass at victimhood.
When the allegations came out, Manson himself issued a statement saying that his relationships had been "entirely consensual with like-minded partners". That is quite telling. For one thing, it makes quite obvious that the nature of these relationships was...un-Orthodox. Indeed, that's the risky bit about risky sex, isn't it? There's always the possibility the other person wakes up in the morning feeling a bit embarrassed, maybe ashamed by what you guys did and decides to turn it into assault. So his statement didn't make him out as some angel. Merely said, you know, it takes two to tango.
Did he take advantage of Wood's youth (19-year age gap)? Very probably. Did that give him a power advantage? Yes. Is that illegal or predatory? No and not really.
My generation, and moreover this era, have made it worryingly easy to label someone as toxic, narcissistic and predatory (without the right to appeal). We have also inflated the numbers of psychos well beyond absurdity. While there are some cases of actual psychopaths, shut-the-blinds and don't-breathe crazies, they are rare. Most people that are currently labeled don't actually fit too well into neat definitions. Most are just flawed people with skewed backgrounds, attachment systems and understanding of relationship dynamics. Alas (or perhaps luckily) not everyone who hurts you is a predator.
In this world, we rely on our support networks, our family and friends, as well as our own (hopefully) good judgment to keep us out of trouble. And I do think you should be held at least partly accountable for your bad decisions in love, life and everything else. Despite age. Despite difficulties you might be going through. Because, well, if people can be temporarily irresponsible, so to speak, then the whole human system breaks down. Who's to say the person next to you on the bus or your current lover aren't in one of those phases even now? How will you know? How can we trust that when someone chooses to do something with, to or for us, they are actually choosing and won't come back to blame us later?
It's dirty and it's vile sometimes, acknowledging you've made poor life decisions. That you've done bad things. That you've allowed others to humiliate you. But there is also undescribable strength just beyond that initial foul feeling. If we fail to cross one, we'll never reach the other.
As you can see, I take accountability and ownership quite seriously. Coming back to Manson, I don't know. None of us can know what went on behind closed doors. I'm inclined to believe it was more a case of foul, perhaps shameful practices and encounters that these women later regretted. I'd rather trust the side of the guy who's working his whole life to build an artistic career (see also Johnny Depp, Kevin Spacey and a slew of others) than the accuser with a so-and-so fame at best who stands to gain a lot of reputation and a lot of money from these accusations.
Manson's recently released album, One Assassination Under God: Chapter 1, appears to delve heavily into his experience over the past four years. Even for that alone, it makes for a compelling listen. Add to that the fact that it's a fantastic musical composition from start to finish and...well.
Obviously, no one's defending rapists and abusers here. Fuck'em. Fuck Mason too if he did actually do such terrible, non-consensual, foul things. But fuck liars, too.
Look I don't know the whole Manson story as I tend to scroll on by celebrity blah blah unless it's a celebrity I kinda like.
I definitely agree that yes, we do need to take some responsibility for our own stupid decisions, but ... And here's the but you suggest:
Of course it would. Because woman historically have ALWAYS been blamed, and always ignored, disbelieved, unheeded. There are a million stories of woman being dismissed because they shouldn't have put themselves in that situation.
I feel deeply uncomfortable with putting the blame on woman in cases where they 'alleged' they have been abused, raped, beaten, etc. It distracts from the real issue at hand that the VAST majority of abusers, rapists, wife beaters etc are male, and that we need to raise men to take responsibility for THEIR actions as woman SHOULD be able to walk right past the beast and for it to restrain itself no matter what the woman 'asks' for.
Unfortunately cases like this confound things. Amber Heard certainly fucked up the woman's cause royally. Because of her, we again are at the point where woman are NOT BELIEVED - even though it's very unlikely they're lying.
And celebrities, of course, can sometimes invite trouble AND be downright IMMUNE to people saying - um no, that's not on - Weinstein, for example. There HAS to be scrutiny of both parties, agreed - but also extreme caution in not believing woman or saying they are to blame as we have been there, done that. A LOT.
Gonna listen tomorrow... There's also a whole other debate here that's always interesting about separating the artist from the art. Otherwise i would probably never listen to some of the artists I actually really, really like.
I think for regular women, that's the case (that they're not lying), but I do think we need to be cautious when the accused has a truckload of money, fame, whatever. It just stands to reason that the more one has to gain from a lie, the more likely said person is to lie. Which isn't to contradict anything you said. Obviously, we've been there and still are in many cases unheard, dismissed and ignored. Which is all the more reason to play fair here and protect the right to be heard we fought so hard to gain.
We've gone from "women should never be believed" to "men should never be believed" (at least in these public-scrutiny, celeb cases, IRL we're still very much at the first one, and these shocking cases that turn out to be lies don't help us at all). Why can't there be a middle ground? Why do we need a generalizing rule instead of a case-by-case approach? Obviously, there's a lot of personal bias that comes into play in each case, but we gotta keep an open mind.
I agree. But as long as we don't know, why does there need to be blame on either side? Why can't both sides be treated with equal caution? I don't think it needs to be a case of it's either his fault or hers, but as long as nothing is substantiated by evidence, why can't both parties be considered potentially guilty?
I don't believe this woman is guilty. Again, I don't know, but I won't believe either by default. But I don't think we should hodge-podge all these men together either. After all, there's a difference between the guy who waits around in an alley and some rich guy you hook up with, let him spend truckloads of money on you, charter you around the world and fuck around with for years, then turn around and say wait a minute, I'm not so sure I liked that 20 years after the fact. The latter woman will inevitably hurt the girl in the alley's chances of being believed and helped.
I think they need to be separate, personally. I don't think art is a calling card for its author. Otherwise, as you said, with everyone being so visible all the time, you wouldn't listen to anything since you're bound to not like an artist's political views, social commentary, lifestyle, etc.
Great analysis.
There is a fundamental problem in "civilised" society today that men's traditional power sources (physical, educational and financial power) have been mostly neutered or "balanced" but women's power sources (sexual and motherhood/family) remain as strong as ever.
This imbalance is not only dysfunctional on a personal level as shown in Manson's story as described above, it is leading to the extinction of civilisation itself.
There has been a massive increase in involuntary childlessness (people who never have children but wanted to) from 2-3% to 35-45%. This is the cause of the catastrophic fertility collapse across the whole world.
Women are biologically programmed to look upwards for a partner in every way (height, education, career, wealth etc). But women have become so successful that there are not enough men to satisfy all these successful women. For example there are 30% more women than men in higher education in the US. At the other end, there are all these low status men who can't find partners - incels.
This is leading to misery all round.
Yes, there's certainly a worrying imbalance currently between male and female roles. This guy comes up with a slightly more hopeful outlook on the whole situation that I personally found some comfort in. Might be worth a listen.